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The Oral Talmud with Benay Lappe and Dan Libenson Episode 11

Welcome to The Oral Talmud!

Below you will find the original video recording of this episode, the core Talmud sources from the conversation (click their citation hyperlinks to find the texts in their fuller context), and a section of Further Learning (links to books, articles, and additional resources mentioned by our hosts).
And remember, the most fulfilling way to deepen your learning is to find a chevruta (a study partner) to share it with!

Here are some questions to ask yourself and/or a chevruta as you encounter this text:

Like our previous week’s episode, this conversation was recorded in June of 2020, in response to the brutal murder of George Floyd at the hands of police. Likewise, we turn to another text which emphasizes the culpability of bystanders and those who remain silent when witnessing cruelty – a story of how one wrong party invitation devolves into the Fall of Jerusalem.
  • When is it time to speak up?
  • What compromises are we willing to make to avoid worse consequences?
  • Which actions become understandable when we recognize how deeply the social contract has been violated?
  • When we tell stories about our past, what are we saying about our present?
אמר רבי יוחנן מאי דכתיב (משלי כח, יד) אשרי אדם מפחד תמיד ומקשה לבו יפול ברעה אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים אתרנגולא ותרנגולתא חרוב טור מלכא אשקא דריספק חרוב ביתר אקמצא ובר קמצא חרוב ירושלים דההוא גברא דרחמיה קמצא ובעל דבביה בר קמצא עבד סעודתא אמר ליה לשמעיה זיל אייתי לי קמצא אזל אייתי ליה בר קמצא אתא אשכחיה דהוה יתיב אמר ליה מכדי ההוא גברא בעל דבבא דההוא גברא הוא מאי בעית הכא קום פוק אמר ליה הואיל ואתאי שבקן ויהיבנא לך דמי מה דאכילנא ושתינא
Rabbi Yoḥanan said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “Happy is the man who fears always, but he who hardens his heart shall fall into mischief” (Proverbs 28:14)? Jerusalem was destroyed on account of Kamtza and bar Kamtza. The place known as the King’s Mountain was destroyed on account of a rooster and a hen. The city of Beitar was destroyed on account of a shaft from a chariot [rispak]. The Gemara explains: Jerusalem was destroyed on account of Kamtza and bar Kamtza. This is as there was a certain man whose friend was named Kamtza and whose enemy was named bar Kamtza. He once made a large feast and said to his servant: Go bring me my friend Kamtza. The servant went and mistakenly brought him his enemy bar Kamtza. The man who was hosting the feast came and found bar Kamtza sitting at the feast. The host said to bar Kamtza. That man is the enemy [ba’al devava] of that man, that is, you are my enemy. What then do you want here? Arise and leave. Bar Kamtza said to him: Since I have already come, let me stay and I will give you money for whatever I eat and drink. Just do not embarrass me by sending me out.
אמר ליה לא אמר ליה יהיבנא לך דמי פלגא דסעודתיך אמר ליה לא אמר ליה יהיבנא לך דמי כולה סעודתיך א"ל לא נקטיה בידיה ואוקמיה ואפקיה אמר הואיל והוו יתבי רבנן ולא מחו ביה ש"מ קא ניחא להו איזיל איכול בהו קורצא בי מלכא אזל אמר ליה לקיסר מרדו בך יהודאי א"ל מי יימר א"ל שדר להו קורבנא חזית אי מקרבין ליה אזל שדר בידיה עגלא תלתא בהדי דקאתי שדא ביה מומא בניב שפתים ואמרי לה בדוקין שבעין דוכתא דלדידן הוה מומא ולדידהו לאו מומא הוא סבור רבנן לקרוביה משום שלום מלכות אמר להו רבי זכריה בן אבקולס יאמרו בעלי מומין קריבין לגבי מזבח סבור למיקטליה דלא ליזיל ולימא אמר להו רבי זכריה יאמרו מטיל מום בקדשים יהרג אמר רבי יוחנן ענוותנותו של רבי זכריה בן אבקולס החריבה את ביתנו ושרפה את היכלנו והגליתנו מארצנו
The host said to him: No, you must leave. Bar Kamtza said to him: I will give you money for half of the feast; just do not send me away. The host said to him: No, you must leave. Bar Kamtza then said to him: I will give you money for the entire feast; just let me stay. The host said to him: No, you must leave. Finally, the host took bar Kamtza by his hand, stood him up, and took him out. After having been cast out from the feast, bar Kamtza said to himself: Since the Sages were sitting there and did not protest the actions of the host, although they saw how he humiliated me, learn from it that they were content with what he did. I will therefore go and inform [eikhul kurtza] against them to the king. He went and said to the emperor: The Jews have rebelled against you. The emperor said to him: Who says that this is the case? Bar Kamtza said to him: Go and test them; send them an offering to be brought in honor of the government, and see whether they will sacrifice it. The emperor went and sent with him a choice three-year-old calf. While bar Kamtza was coming with the calf to the Temple, he made a blemish on the calf’s upper lip. And some say he made the blemish on its eyelids, a place where according to us, i.e., halakha, it is a blemish, but according to them, gentile rules for their offerings, it is not a blemish. Therefore, when bar Kamtza brought the animal to the Temple, the priests would not sacrifice it on the altar since it was blemished, but they also could not explain this satisfactorily to the gentile authorities, who did not consider it to be blemished. The blemish notwithstanding, the Sages thought to sacrifice the animal as an offering due to the imperative to maintain peace with the government. Rabbi Zekharya ben Avkolas said to them: If the priests do that, people will say that blemished animals may be sacrificed as offerings on the altar. The Sages said: If we do not sacrifice it, then we must prevent bar Kamtza from reporting this to the emperor. The Sages thought to kill him so that he would not go and speak against them. Rabbi Zekharya said to them: If you kill him, people will say that one who makes a blemish on sacrificial animals is to be killed. As a result, they did nothing, bar Kamtza’s slander was accepted by the authorities, and consequently the war between the Jews and the Romans began. Rabbi Yoḥanan says: The excessive humility of Rabbi Zekharya ben Avkolas destroyed our Temple, burned our Sanctuary, and exiled us from our land.

Further Learning

  • For Rabbi Elazar's Cow: Episode 10
  • For Rabbi Elazar adding 700 benches to the study hall: Episode 7and Episode 8
  • For Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai being smuggled out of Jerusalem in a coffin: Episode 1
  • More on Law & Order "cold openings" on TvTropes
  • "If you don't follow the commandments, the land will vomit you out" - start with Leviticus 18:28
  • "Senseless Hatred/Sinat Chinam" on Yoma 9b
  • Bar Kochba Revolt on Wikipedia
  • "To shame someone in public is akin to murder.” Bava Metzia 58b
  • For David Kraemer on the early Rabbis: Episode 4
  • The Oven of Akhnai: Episode 3 and Episode 5
  • Trevor Noah on the Social Contract - Daily Show video on YouTube
  • An animated intro to Pikuach Nefesh via BimBam
  • Nitza's Attic/Yehareg V'al Ya'avor ("Laws that one should be killed before violating") Sanhedrin 74a
  • A search for Chelm Stories from the Town of Wise Fools on Archive.org (many good options to borrow!)
  • Mount Sinai held over our Heads & Contract Law - Episode 2
  • Absurdity in Statutory Inquiry - "Rationalizing Absurdity" by Jim Huang at The Yale Law Journal
  • Roman à clef on Wikipedia
  • Leon Kass "Stories are not about what happened, but what always happens" - on UChicago
  • Jeffrey Rubinstein's "Stories of the Babylonian Talmud" - on Archive.org
  • The word for wimpiness/humility is עָנָו/עִנְוְותָנוּתוֹ - referring to Moses (Number 12:3) and Hillel (Shabbat 31a)
  • Anna Quindlen's website (couldn't find her quote “Pioneers tend to be conservative,”)
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